Saturday, 3 October 2009

The Evil of Degeneracy on Both Sides of the Atlantic

At IBA I found a copied and pasted article about the odious Polanski case by one Rob Taylor who was so far unknown to me. The good thing is that I thus hadn't to give him a link, the bad one is that now I DO know who Rob Taylor is and that he irritated me enough to comment on something I'd rather preferred to ignore.

Basically, it is all about "the evil of Old Europe’s degeneracy" and while the author doubtlessly managed to show how well read he is (whatever that is worth), he failed to prove what, about Polanski's crime as well as about those who defend him, is particularly European. At the end of the day, we have just another pretentious bit of pseudo-intellectual hogwash that serves as an excuse to vent some pretty unpalatable resentments insupportable by reason. Frankly, anybody who talks so much about "degenerates" and what they are doing, gives some reasonable cause for the suspicion that he is somewhat obsessed with it and that gives me the creeps.

Not too surprisingly, this valiant degenerate-buster isn't all that accurate when it comes to facts and I think facts do count, even or maybe particularly if somebody is in the middle a full-blown self-righteous moral outrage. Polanski did NOT "rape that girl violently". If Taylor had bothered to read the notes of the victim's evidence at The Smoking Gun (but then, maybe he has and just doesn't care because it stands in the way of his own verbosity) it would have become obvious even to him that if Polanski would have raped the girl, as opposed to "statutorily raped", the court would have had him by the balls for rape and not for "statutory rape". But then, maybe the court was staffed with evil degenerates from Old Europe. As it really was, the girl maybe complied. She admitted that she had sex before, and at a previous "photo op" Polanski had made her pose topless as well, so she, sexually experienced as she was, must have had at least a whiff of what he was up to. Yet she STILL went with him again to a second "photo session". Obviously the court didn't believe her half-hearted claims of having resisted or -- again -- they would have gotten him for rape and not for statutory rape.

What to make of a mother who lets her 13-year-old daughter go on a hop with such a DOM I better don't say here and no, I am NOT defending Polanski. The fact that his victim was maybe complying (and her mother plain and simply gutter trash) does NOT make him ONE LITTLE BIT better. To make that clear once and for all: A man who has, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, sex with a girl of 13 and knows, as Polanski did, about her age, ought never to leave his prison cell again or at least not entire.

My point is, rather, to speak up for "Old Europe", not to relativize what Polanski did and I think I have a strong case. In evilly degenerate Old Europe, be it back in the Seventies or now, you'd have trouble to find a mother who would be so readily prepared to pimp her underage daughter, whereas in morally upright, clean and family-values-orientated America they just have -- I have covered the topic before -- a cult of "beauty pageants" and "children's beauty pageants" that has elevated the pimping of little girls to an art form and an industry. I don't think it's easy to make a seven-year old girl look like a 30-year old cheap hooker, but they manage.

All this, mind you, is NOT evil and degenerate and, above all, does NOT cater for pedophiles, it is just an expression of healthy, jolly-hockeysticks American family life.

You'll have, too, to go a long way, to find in evil Old Europe, chock-full of degenerates, a Photoshop-service like that, if at all:

Different from the evil, sick and degenerate Old Europeans, Americans are also refreshingly up-front when it comes to the question of what all this is about:

Sadly, it is not a bit funny and if I see Polanski's victim plus Mommy Dearest now posing together, I catch myself first rummaging for my pukebag and then asking myself whether all this is maybe very much in line with the American culture of female attention whoring:

Samantha Geimer (the victim), right, and her mother Susan Gailey arrive at the premiere of the HBO Documentary "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" in New York, on Tuesday, May 6, 2008.

Fancy that: There are two women, one the victim of pedophilia, the other one the pimpette mother of same victim and here they strut, preen and simper at the premiere of a documentary as if it were about them and not about the man who had had illicit sex with one of them as a child while the other one was, practically, consenting.

All this, again, does not make Polanski even a bit better and I fail to see what Polanski's work has to do with it anyway. A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile. I find the argument of the "great artist" sickeningly amoral. Let's say, for argument's sake, that Polanski would have spent all the years since 1977 in prison or at least in a situation where he couldn't approach and ensnare barely pubescent girls. What would we have missed? Yeah, right. A couple of good movies. Not more. Get your values in perspective!

Is this a feminist point of view? Good joke! Predictably, those loud-mouthed jerkettes, the most vicious enemies of other women, were the first ones to speak up for Polanski, see... [The links to the cases of feminists defending Polanski I'd provided are dead now. As I've learned about a petition from 2009 demanding a pardon for him in the meantime, I'd like to mention a couple of names from the signee roster and the names of others who defended Polanski publicly: Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein, Whoopi Goldberg, Kate Winslet, Natalie Portman, Meryl Streep, Catherine Deneuve. So what do we have here? A pedophile, a DOM, several women who stridently supported the unspeakable and unspeakably false-faced #metoo campaign, and a woman whose denouncement of same campaign doesn't seem quite so stellar anymore, now we know that. - The Editrix January 2018.]

Talking about feminism and back to the children's beauty pageants: I wonder what those pimpettes mothers who groom their little daughters for such contests have to say about "women's rights" and the "sexual liberation" of women. I remain adamant that no sane, red-blooded father wants his little girl to pose like that and that they would forbid it had they only the balls. So I boldly claim that those female corruptors of their own children have very probably the upper hand in the family already, if they aren't "single mothers" to begin with, that is. But then, I may be wrong here. After all, I was born and bred in evil, sick, degenerate Old Europe and although OUR fathers may be like that, what do I know about the joys of the non-degenerate life of American families.

I realize quite well that a penchant for very young females is a biological male trait. I am not naive. Maybe you won't believe this, but I know from the time I used to work with horses that even stallions recognize the younger ones and prefer them. I just think that childhood is, if not a biological, but a civilisatory achievement and to end it for the sake of sexual gratification is uncivilised, barbaric and a civilisatory advanced society needs to taboo and severely penalise it.

Another aspect is that I doubt Samantha Geimer, the victim, has done pre-and barely pubescent girls in other cultures a favour with her tawdry exhibition of "forgiveness" towards and exculpation of Polanski, but what the heck. Any- (But ANY-!)thing for some minutes in the limelight. Can you imagine a boy who'd been sexually abused as a child and who'd then pose in "sexy" clothes in front of an audience, an audience, mind you, that is fully aware of his history? I can't.

One last thing and I wasn't sure whether I'd go too far here, specifically as this will exceed the topic of feminism for which this blog stands. However, this "evil degenerate Old Europe" bit made me increasingly angry in the process of writing this entry. So here it is: Dear Rob Taylor, Old Europe may not always have behaved as well as human decency would have required it towards people of your skin colour (or towards people of their own skin colours) over the course of its history, but, believe me, different from your country, blacks, few as they were here, have never been enslaved at this side of the Atlantic, and even with the feudal system in place, NOBODY has ever been enslaved here. And that with which the Kennedy family got away in -- notabene -- 20th century America... that would make any European Renaissance prince, including those of Borgia ancestry, faint.

In the process of the modest research for this entry I was appalled to find that "child beauty pageants" are held, albeit not very profusely, in Britain as well. But Britain, this staunch ally of bright and beautiful America, doesn't fall under the definition of "Old Europe" in the Rumsfeldian sense anyway.


Damien said...


I sent a link to your critical essay to Rob Taylor, via email, and I should be hearing back from him soon. I'm waiting to see what his response is.

If He chooses to write a thread responding to yours, over at his site, I will let you know.

By the way, Pastorius only posted an excerpt, along with a link. Here's the original, in case anyone is confused.

Female Misogynist said...

I found it interesting that only a few days after Polanski was caught, I saw this article about Brooke Shields' nude photos from when she was 10.

Rob Taylor said...

You didn't really read my essay did you? It was about the reaction of people to the rape but I guess that's why you don't link to it, lest your readers see that you're misrepresenting me.

And are you really saying that drugging a girl then shoving your penis in her ass while she pleads with you to stop isn't violent? Really? I guess I see why you're so offended by the term degenerate.

Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote, and you'll see that my point isn't that only Old Europe raped people, but that the modern left has adopted European values that devalue the idea of personal ownership of the body and promote a class system where people's "betters" are allowed to abuse those underneath them. The Kennedy family is part of what I'm talking about, they are America's "royalty" allowed to rape and murder their way through history.

The_Editrix said...

Damien, everybody who WANTED to read Mr. Taylor's entire, hate-filled anti-European diatribe could do so following the link from IBA, to which I linked. I did not keep that knowledge from anybody. Now you are doing exactly what I didn't want, namely giving him a link from this site. However, thank you for your response. I wonder what your take is. Care to let me know?

FM, I read this with great interest: "The 1983 piece was created by U.S. artist Richard Prince, who called it “Spiritual America.” The original photo the piece is based on was taken by photographer Gary Gross. The photo was commissioned by Shields’ mother in an attempt to promote her daughters modeling and acting career." How very interesting! Maybe Mr. Taylor will care to read how deeply pedophilia is entrenched in the squeaky-clean American culture, as opposed to Old Europe's evil degeneracy.

Between you and me: Are we amazed? Did that girl have a father as well? And if yes, did he have a say in all this?

Mr. Taylor, your reading skills leave a lot to be desired or so it seems. As I said to Damien already, I didn't keep anybody from reading your entire anti-European rant. If the importance of links in the Internet is not clear to you, it's not my fault. Your theory that America adopted Europe's evils is a truism. She has adopted Europe's values, good and bad. I'm afraid you have to live with it. By the way, every society knows upstairs and downstairs, people who have power and those who haven't. Compared to America (or to other non-European cultures) Europe was doing rather fine when it comes to the rule of law, even back in history, while elsewhere people were cannibalising each other, really and metaphorically. So much about "personal ownership of the body". It were Europeans who did away with barbaric practices like, to name just one example, the burning of widows at the stake in India. And I wonder whether rape and wielding power and violence over their less fortunate human beings was unknown to the indigenous people of America. I am no expert on America's history, but I have a hunch that they werent all that particular about "personal ownership of the body" either. I hope you are not subscribing to the leftist "Noble Savage" theory.

Another aspect of a wielding of power and violence in American history would be the rape of African slaves by white slave owners. But as I said, I don't know much about American history and maybe all those women complied or it didn't happen at all or it is just a gross exaggeration of a notorious leftist historiography. And while in America human beings were still treated as chattel, a Swiss businessman founded what was to become the Red Cross and initiated the Geneva Convention.

The Kennedys did what they did because America allowed it, not because they were immigrants from Europe sticking to the evil degenerate ways of their home country. It was America who took the European concept of monarchy, perverted and twisted it until I fitted a bunch of criminals. I wonder what, by your logic, immigrants from Asia or Africa are supposed to contribute to America's culture and society.

And we haven't even begun to discuss that American penchant for pedophilia. Oh wait! A penchant for pedophilia is ubiquitous, so let me rephrase it: The public indulgence and celebration of pedophilia.

And talking about degenerate: Frankly, I think you have a fixation about anal sex, or you wouldn't talk about it all the time in so lurid detail. It is not shocking, it is plainly -- well -- degenerate. And now I guess I have to say it once again for you: The fact that I find that disgusting is no relativation of what Polanski did.

Grim said...

The elites of both America and Europe are the same evil screwed up group. Most american's despise ours, but don't know how to remove them.

Rob Taylor said...

*Sigh* Yet again you make up facts to suit you. And again all of your "facts" are lies you've made up on the spot.

Europeans owned slaves until it was abolished ... in the early 1800s. But beyond that slavery was introduced in America by Europeans and existed for hundreds of years prior to their being a United States. Were you better educated you'd know that Black Africans were being traded as slaves by the Conquistadors and even Pagan Europe was involved in international slaving.

As for the rapes of slaves sexual slavery of Eastern European women goes on even now. I suppose the Kennedy family is responsible for that as well.

The Kennedy example is, as I pointed out, a good example of what I'm talking about. Liberals here treat the Kennedy clan as aristocracy. That was my point. But again you are pretending I'm claiming several other things and I wrote an "anti-European" essay when in fact it was an essay about the American left wanting to adopt the worst aspects of European culture. If it offends you that I don't want Marxism, European style cultural relativism and moral cowardice to be imported from your shores so be it.

As for your constant implications that I am a rapist or pervert because I A) actually know the facts of the case (unlike you) and B)report the facts when people like you try to blame the victim of a violent rape for her own victimization this is textbook projection. YOU claimed the girl wasn't violently raped, I corrected you and then you claim I'm fixated on anal rape.

By your logic the IBA are all secretly Muslims because they are "fixated" on counter-Jihadism. This is completely asinine.

You know nothing about history, American or European, and less about criminality and more importantly decency. This little girl was forced to have sex and you blamed her mother, attacked me and called her a slut. Outrageous.

Why don't you try arguing against the points I make, instead of these strawman arguments you invent to attack me. And just who are you anyway? Why the venom? I never made most of the statements you've attributed to me, so I'd think you had some personal animosity but I frankly never heard of you until a friend sent me the link to your site.

Welmer said...

Caught a link to this on fbardamu's post.

Brilliant post. I'm gaining hope from this stuff. I've been thinking the exact same thing about American moral degeneracy -- and I'm very much an American.

Needless to say, I'd like to change it.

PS good to see you here FM

The_Editrix said...

I don't have much time for people who resort to onomatopoeia when they run out of arguments, Mr. Taylor and even less for somebody who starts dishing out ad hominems based on pseudo-psychological claptrap and who then freaks out when it is thrown back at him, so let's keep the rest brief.

Fine, you crushed me. I am overwhelmed by your erudition. I admit you are right because nobody who can spell "Conquistadors" can be wrong. Dunant did not found the Red Cross, widows were not burnt at the stakes in India, nobody but the European upper classes violated "personal ownership of the body" and if white slave owners in America were not so particular about that either, they'd learned it from them.

I admit, too, that, different from what I stated (HOW many times?), the entire purpose of my blog entry and of my response to you was to exculpate Polanski, because I have a secret penchant for ugly dwarfs. Everything to make you happy and keep the rest as brief as possible.

Now that is settled, lets concentrate on those of my points you failed to address. Please be so kind to

1) inform me in three brief sentences max what your explanation for the acceptance and celebration of pedophilia within the American culture is and

2) let me know where the intrinsic good in America's culture comes from. And no, "we developed it independently" will not do. If the evil is to blame on Europe, the good must come from somewhere else as well.

Please tick where applicable:
- Caribbean Voodoo culture
- Indian Hinduism with its intrinsic equality of all people
- American Indian noble savagery
- Inca and Maya humanity
- African herding cultures
- Mongolia with its superbly effective horizontal mobility
- China with its appreciation of women's rights and physical integrity
- Japan with its deeply ingrained sense for racial equality
- Islam with its esteem for everything good, noble and humane.

You may add something, just keep it brief.

Carl said...

This is pretty funny.

I generally agree with both Rob and Editrix's articles.

Editrix, it was "rape-rape" and Polanski managed to plead it down to statutory but did a runner because he didn't think the judge would hold up his end of the deal.

But what's funny is that in this thread Rob has fallen into a parallel of what he describes in the third paragraph of his article; the assumption of what he presumes are prevailing facts in Europe. It wouldn't be so funny if he hadn't quickly started throwing accusations of made up facts and of not knowing history, or asked Editrix "who are you anyway?" when his original article was about holier than thou attitudes.

His article says that the US left has adopted what they assume to be European values, but the third paragraph of his first comment here says that they have adopted what are European values. What are his real beliefs?

Eastern European sex trafficking? Sounds like a Guardian headline. Meanwhile the Met considers shutting down its trafficing department because it all turned out to be hype by feminists leading up to the 2006 World Cup. Where does he get his European news from?

Slavery until the early 1800s? It was variously abolished from the 1100s through to the 1600s moving outwards from the North West. Sure various other forms continued (the definition of "slavery" got looser as more forms were banned) for quite a while afterwards, but the US still sends people to jail for failing to pay child support. Personally, I don't think it matters but it does if you're accusing others of not knowing their history. Why so many people picked it up again after moving West, but not East, is something I've never seen discussed properly.

But now back to the main points.

What I find Rob's actual article to be saying is that Hollywood came out behind Polanski because they thought that's what "enlightened Europeans" would do. It's common for the American left to say; "they do Apples in Europe and so we should do Oranges in America". They try to guilt trip the American public on so many issues, true or not, that they've started to believe their own lies.

However, the actual European reaction has been a passive support for his arrest and I bet most don't even know who Polanski is anyway. Excluding the initial knee jerk defensive reactions from the French and Polish governments over the arrest of one their people, but I would hope for that from any government. In the UK at least I haven't heard anyone demand his release.

So now the end of Rob's article starts to fall apart. The reaction in Europe does not match his expectation. The noise in support of Polanski has been from America, not Europe. All the people Rob links to in support of his theory are ... Americans. Maybe they're rich Americans living in French châteaus and pretending to be royalty, but they're still Americans.

What I then see Editrix as trying to do is to get to the bottom of why Hollywood wants to think this is how Europeans are (and Rob too, as his comments here seem to betray his real opinions) in an attempt to excuse Polanski. The fact is that mothers pushing their young children forward is something that Americans and especially Hollywood manages to do far worse than anyone else. There was a good ten minutes devoted to mocking this in the recent film Bruno, where the outcome was outrageous pics like this and an even worse one of a baby being crucified that I can't find. It's all starting to sound a bit like they doth protest too much.

The fact is that if the girl's mother wasn't so pushy then Polanski would never have had a chance to rape her. Bad people like Polanski exist all over the world but it was a strange American cultural trait that created the opportunity for him to act. How that can then be blamed on European values more so than American values is beyond me.

The_Editrix said...

Editrix, it was "rape-rape" and Polanski managed to plead it down to statutory but did a runner because he didn't think the judge would hold up his end of the deal.

Carl, I will gladly believe this. Besides, and I said so, even if the girl had BEGGED Polanski to have sex with her the court ought to have made sure one way or the other that that man could never lay his hands on a child again.

My point was to prove that Mr. Taylor didn't even bother to take the possibility of statutory rape into consideration because it would have robbed him of the pleasure of using the word "degenerate" as often as he did.

One anti-feminist male blogger (or was it a commenter at one of those blogs?) stated that if a female mentions a number regarding with how many men she had sex, it always ought to be multiplied with ten. So this girl said she had sex twice before. Let's say this was with just one man. So according to the anti-feminist's logic, this girl had had sex with ten boys or men before. I am sure many American anti-feminists would call that a reasonable assumption. However, although I was tempted, I didn't discuss it because it would have been over the top and obfuscating the fact that my goal was exactly NOT (as Mr. Taylor falsely claimed) to blame the victim.

Yes, I think it is entirely possible that, in spite of the court decision, Polanski really raped the girl.

But what's funny is that in this thread Rob has fallen into a parallel of what he describes in the third paragraph of his article; the assumption of what he presumes are prevailing facts in Europe. It wouldn't be so funny if he hadn't quickly started throwing accusations of made up facts and of not knowing history, or asked Editrix "who are you anyway?" when his original article was about holier than thou attitudes.

Exactly. It could have developed into an interesting discussion. But at least it is funny (ha ha, NOT peculiar) now.

Anonymous said...

I took a different viewpoint, with which you will probably disagree: and (and also

The_Editrix said...

Well, you see from the comments here that I was called every name in the book as a defender of Polanski when I am nothing of that sort. So this is a most controversial topic. When all is said and done, there isn't all that much about which I disagree with you. I just despise any culture and sub-culture which actively promotes pedophilia and of which the American "beauty" cult is one. (And no, the Catholic Church is NOT!) I am working for months on a major blog entry now in the context of the German child abuse scandals, but can't somehow get my act together because the topic is so repulsive.